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Report 1619
Report #1619 Skillset: Minstrelry Skill: Yaikoyaiko Org: Minstrels Status: Rejected Feb 2017 Furies' Decision: No. Problem: Minstrels were given an ego kill setup, but no real way to actually build on it outside of shotnote (costs power) or the insta attempt (costs more power to do less). Minstrels lack an active way to use their primary offense to support this goal, and with the last change to jitterbug we would like to focus on that as our means 0 R:13 Solution #1: Increase the drains from yaikoyaiko based on number of mental afflictions. 0 R:13 Solution #2: Make yaikoyaiko only drain ego, but increase the amount drained, with an increase for mental afflictions on the target. Player Comments: ---on 2/12 @ 00:59 writes: Can't you use m6 to drain ego and aurics to synergise with the drains? Second, what numbers were you thinking? ---on 2/12 @ 08:44 writes: I agree with Shedrin, while there may not be specific pressure on ego from stanzas, there is active pressure from other skills. The problem statement therefore is quite misleading. I also agree that just asking for something on a "number of mental afflictions" is not a solution. Please provide real solutions with real numbers. ---on 2/12 @ 11:03 writes: 1) Yaikoyaiko already scales with tempinsanity. 2) Bards already have a lot of vital pressure and if allowed to set up properly, this vital pressure can be deadly. 3) In terms of vital pressure from songs, Minstrelry already has the highest of all the bard specs - adding even more will make them much too powerful in comparison to other specs 4) Wasn't your opposition to Telepathy PsychicVampirism being given scaling ego drain based on mental affs due to how easy it is to stack affs in groups? Why is this not even mentioned in this report, numbers aside. ---on 2/12 @ 11:16 writes: I'm sorry but this is not needed at all. First of all, bards are not lacking in the vitals pressure department, in fact I would put them at the top of the list of pressuring vitals. M6 actively drains mana/ego so I am not sure how you are lacking an active way to use your primary offense, you also have aurics to aide in this. You also have AlcoholFumes which drains ego as well. FireFugue and CanCan which pressure health. What sort of numbers are you looking at? Are you going to cap it? It should be capped. Will it count for all mental affs or just the mental affs of the bard that afflicted you with? I also have to echo Falmiis comment on your opposition to the TP report, how is this any different? ---on 2/12 @ 23:25 writes: To add to the above: there aren't any numbers associated with this report. ---on 2/16 @ 02:40 writes: I don't disagree with the premise of the report given that Minstrel songs don't really support their ego kill method, but I would agree that having actual numbers would be beneficial towards the discussion ---on 2/16 @ 06:09 writes: Can we get the current the drain amounts for yaikoyaiko? I agree that proposed numbers would be good but in addition to that we also need to know where it stands now. I'm not opposed to either solution on principle but vagueness, especially if we're talking about an undefined number being multiplied by mental affs is concerning to me. ---on 2/16 @ 12:49 writes: I have no principle rejection against the idea or even the solutions, but I can't really approve something where neither a scale idea is provided nor has there been a discussion as to how this could look like in the comments. Apologies for the late reply, am not sure how this report slipped through, but my concerns have already been stated by some of the above commenters. ---on 2/18 @ 01:39 writes: I would leave the damage to interpretation I think. This was not meant to be a "I win becuase I have it" effect, it was more substitute damage as we move things over ---on 2/18 @ 07:37 writes: Here are some numbers from the test server, all done on self using paranoia and a max ego of 9300: YaikoYaiko by itself (on an uninsane target) is ~175 ego drain (and a similar mana drain). YaikoYaiko with Alcohol fumes increased the total ego drain to ~760. Shotnote appears to be about ~1.2k. Temp insanity scaling works as follows (this is all with YaikoYaiko + AlcoholFumes): Slight: No additional scaling, Moderate: 406 mana, 1.1k ego, Major: 710 mana, 1.5k ego,Massive: 1k mana and 1.8k ego per tick. Drunkenfool causes ~2s of blackout and ~1.3k ego damage. ---on 2/18 @ 08:11 writes: Given all of that I would be opposed to both solutions if the insanity scaling is not removed. I know there aren't many illuminati around but keeping that insanity scaling and adding a mental aff scaling in addition is too much synergy in my opinion. In terms of ego YaikoYaiko currently adds around 1k in reward for massive insanity. We can try to use that as some sort of basis to think of numbers for your proposal. I think I would be alright with (100 + 1%) per mental aff, that would put you at around 1000 additional drain for 5 mental affs. It would be a buff in most cases (which I imagine is the goal here) because a minstrel appears to not be able to cause any insanity but can cause mental affs (so you could time shotnote with your tick to guarantee at least 2 mental affs for the tick) and this would also scale further than it currently can at massive insanity because there are 11 mental affs, so if you somehow stick them all the tick would be +11% and +1100. I'm not sure if that's a problematic possibility or not. You could always cap it at 5 mental affs if it is. ---on 2/20 @ 12:37 writes: I think when the change to put minstrels' insta as an ego kill was envoyed, the numbers were hashed out quite a bit. They're supposed to have taken into account the entire minstrels kit when the numbers were put together. I'm not opposed to making Minstrels maybe have some kind of viable tempinsanity building strategy, though I'm not sure how we will want that to work. ---on 2/22 @ 21:56 writes: I voted reject due to the Minstrels envoy voting reject and the general lack of arguments for the report, however I'm not against changing how this works in principle for future reports. ---on 2/26 @ 21:05 writes: When this report comes back with an alteration or two and an approve vote from the Minstrels envoy, I'll be open to it once more. I like the concept, but as Wobou pointed out, there needs to be some adjustments. ---on 2/26 @ 21:51 writes: I should note that YaikoYaiko scales with astral insanity, which can get very, very high compared to tempinsanity. If anything, the scaling should be capped to the massive tempinsanity levels if this is the direction you want ot go.